The Smart Advertising Book, with Dan White

The Smart Advertising Book

Episode 207

Those of you who know me outside of this podcast, know that if I’m doing anything that involves advertising, whether it be in a classroom or a consulting setting, I think of ads as a complicated puzzle that is never fully solved. While it may not have a predictable outcome, there are a few key principles about it that are always true.

I’ve picked up these lessons one at a time, either by studying competitors or through the brands that entrusted me to run their ads—sometimes through painful trial and error. The models and principles that emerge from this process become a valuable piece of baseline knowledge, allowing you to make case-by-case decisions.

However, it’s hard to pass these insights along to others. They’re often too abstract, and the examples become stale and dated as campaigns retire.

Does this mean anyone wanting to adopt this perspective on advertising must go through the same process I did? Not necessarily. Thanks to someone with a gift for brevity and illustration, these principles have been distilled into a book.

As I leaf through its pages, I’m delighted to see many concepts I’ve known given clear shape and an easy-to-remember form.

Our guest graduated from Cambridge University with a Masters of Arts. He has worked in marketing, market research and brand consultancy for 30 years. He uses imaginative visuals to bring marketing concepts to life.

He’s one of the nicest authors I’ve had on, and he’s back on this show for a third time. Let’s go to England to speak with Dan White.

Timestamps/Chapters:

0:00:00 Intro
00:02:27 Welcome Dan
00:04:40 Oldest known advertisement
00:09:18 Uber’s clever transit ad
00:11:15 Positive and negative impacts of ads
00:22:47 using advertising to build brand asset
00:23:49 PSA
00:30:46 Many ways ads can tell a story
00:33:19 How brain perceives messages
00:37:43 Learning about ads through metaphor
00:45:45 Getting the book or contacting Dan

People, products or concepts mentioned in the show:

Dan on LinkedIn

Dan White’s Smart Advertising Book

Dan was previously on In Episode 166 and Episode 109

Hankin’s Hexagon

FMCG – Fast Moving Consumer Goods (packaged foods, beverages, snacks)



Listen to episode

Dan’s latest book demystifies advertising

Causal Artificial Intelligence, with John Thompson

Casual AI with John Thompson

Episode 206

There’s no denying that ChatGPT and other GenerativeAI’s do  amazing things.

Extrapolating how far they’ve come in 3 years, many can get carried away with thinking GenerativeAI will lead to machines reaching General and even Super Intelligence. We’re impressed by how clever they sound, and we’re tempted to believe that they’ll chew through problems just like the most expert humans do. 

But according to many AI experts, this isn’t what’s going to happen.  

The difference between what GenerativeAI can do and what humans can do is actually quite stark. Everything that it gives you has to be proofed and fact-checked. 

The reason why is embedded in how they work. It uses a LLM to crawl the vast repository of human writing and multimedia on the web. It gobbles them up and chops them all up until they’re word salad. When you give it a prompt, it measures what words it’s usually seen accompanying your words, then spits back what usually comes next in those sequences.  The output IS very impressive, so impressive that when one of these was being tested in 2022 by a Google Engineer with a Masters in Computer Science named Blake Lemoine, became convinced that he was talking with an intelligence that he characterized as having sentience. He spoke to Newsweek about it, saying:  

“During my conversations with the chatbot, some of which I published on my blog, I came to the conclusion that the AI could be sentient due to the emotions that it expressed reliably and in the right context. It wasn’t just spouting words.” 

All the same, GenerativeAI shouldn’t be confused with what humans do. Take a published scientific article written by a human. How they would have started is not by hammering their keyboard until all the words came out, they likely started by asking a “what if”, building a hypothesis that makes inferences about something,  and they would have chained this together with reasoning by  others, leading to experimentation, which proved/disproved the original thought. The output of all that is what’s written in the article. Although GenerativeAI seems smart, you would too if you skipped all the cognitive steps that had happened prior to the finished work.

This doesn’t mean General Artificial Intelligence is doomed. It means there’s more than one branch of AI – each is good at solving different kinds of problems. One branch called Causal AI doesn’t just look for patterns, but instead figures out what causes things to happen  by building a model of something in the real world. That  distinguishes it from GenerativeAI, and it’s what enables this type of AI to  recommend decisions that rival the smartest humans. The types of decisions extend into business areas like marketing, making things run more efficiently, and delivering more value and ROI.

My guest is the Global Head of AI at (EY) Ernst & Young, having also been an analytics executive at Gartner and CSL Behring and graduating from DePaul with an MBA. 

He has written five  books. His 2024 book is about the branch of AI technology we don’t hear very much about, Causal AI. So let’s go to Chicago now to speak with John Thompson.

 

Chapter Timestamps

0:00:00 Intro

00:04:36 Welcome John

00:09:05 drawbacks with current Generative AI

00:16:09 problems causal AI is a good fit for

00:22:47 Way Generative AI can help with causal

00:26:50 PSA

00:28:08 How DAGs help in modeling

00:38:36 what is Causal Discovery

00:47:52 contacting John; checking out his books

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

John is on LinkedIn

John Thompson has been on Funnel Reboot twice previously:

Episode 136

Episode 181

Causal Diagramming tools:

https://www.dagitty.net/

https://cbdrh.shinyapps.io/daggle/

 



Listen to episode

Components of Causal AI modeling process.

Marketing more efficiently with AI, with Rich Brooks

Rich brooks

Episode 205

 

Rich Brooks is founder and president of flyte new media, a digital agency in Portland, Maine.  He founded The Agents of Change a weekly podcast that has over 550 episodes. He is a nationally recognized speaker on using digital channels like search, social media and mobile for marketing to your audience. Rich also hosts the Agents of Change conference which takes place October 9th and 10th both virtually and in his hometown of Portland, Maine.

 

Timestamps/Chapters

0:00:00 Intro

00:02:49 welcome Rich

00:08:56 using GPT to make text seo-friendly

00:17:32 blending generative text with your own content

00:22:47 expanding to image & video

00:27:11 PSA

00:27:45 managing projects and events with AI

00:38:36 when to use a human vs aGPT

00:47:52 info on Rich. his podcast & his conference

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

The Agents of Change Conference, Oct 9-10, 2024

Rich’s Podcast – The Agents of Change

Rich on LinkedIn

Rich on Twitter/X



Listen to episode

Present Beyond Measure, with Lea Pica

Present Beyond Measure, with Lea Pica

Episode 204

Eyes are important. Each of us puts heavy weight on our vision when forming a mental model of the world around us.Seeing is believing. This is so important in business, almost every time people meet, some visual tool guides the discussion – this practically essential object is a presentation, specifically a data presentation.

But knowing what we know about our visual senses, creating something that’s tuned for people’s minds…as well as their hearts, takes combining neuroscience, storytelling, emotion, persuasion, design and effective communication.

That’s a lot to know, but our guest can help you do it. For over a decade, she’s helped those in the digital marketing and web analytics communities transform their  presentations from snoozefests into experiences that inspire action

She’s a workshop leader and keynote speaker. We’re going to talk about the book she came out with in 2024 “Present Beyond Measure.”  Let’s go south of NYC to the Jersey shore to talk with Lea Pica.

Chapter Timestamps:

0:00:00   Intro

00:04:23 Welcome Lea Pica

00:09:42 know the stakeholders you are presenting to

00:18:04 Building meeting’s name around message

00:32:14 PSA

00:33:07 Parsing your content into digestible-sized ideas

00:40:08 using story arc structure to make slides

00:48:05 keeping data accurate in graphs

01:01:27 Listener-exclusive offer by Lea

 

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

 Lea Pica’s website

The Present Beyond Measure podcast

The Book can be found on her site or on Goodreads:

Present Beyond Measure: Design, Visualize, and Deliver Data Stories That Inspire Action

Lea on LinkedIn



Listen to episode

 

 

Present Beyond Measure book

Greenlighting your marketing strategy with a winning deck, with Shea Cole

Shea Cole

Episode 203:

How many words does a message need to be for it to be useful? Would you believe under 35 words, or under 160 characters? Here are some examples:

Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg address: “We cannot dedicate. We cannot consecrate we cannot hallow this ground. The world will little note nor long. Remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.”

Suffragette leader Emmeline Pankhurst declared, “We are here not because we are law-breakers; we are here in our efforts to become law-makers.”

Henry David Thoreau, in his book Walden, on experiencing Nature should be accessible to all, regardless of social or economic status. “The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man’s abode”.

JFK “the goal, before this decade is out, [is] of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to earth.”

Pierre Trudeau: proposed in 1967 that Canada should decriminalize homosexuality. He said “The view we take is, there’s no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation.”

Hilary Clinton 2008  when she lost out to Barack Obama for the nomination to run for president said “we weren’t able to shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling this time,” but added proudly, “it’s got about 18 million cracks in it,” a tally of her primary votes.

Having heard those, you’ll agree that this is doable.

Someone who believes a concise strategy is what it takes to lead people

What’s more, she believes we must show them this learned skill so they can craft their strategies and develop into leaders themselves.  Our guest is a storyteller, a framework-maker, a brand-builder, who talks about strategy, communication skills, and how to forge your own path. She is the CMO for a security technology firm called Field Effect. Shea Cole is a wife and mom and  a 2024 Recipient Ottawa’s top 40 under forty.

 

Timestamps/Chapters:

00:00:00 Intro

00:04:23 Welcome Shea Cole

00:11:27 Build deck & meeting around vision

00:18:04 Slide 1

00:29:20 PSA

00:30:00 Slides 2 through 6

00:36:25 Adding parts that turn strategy into dollars

00:46:06 Contacting Shea

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

Shea’s website

Shea on LinkedIn

Shea’s article on the 6-Slide Deck, on Medium

Shea’s course on “How to Build a Strategy”

Labatts 50 – The Beer of the Canadien Working Class 



Listen to episode

Master presenter, Shea Cole

Prompt Engineering, with Mike Taylor

Prompt Engineering

Episode 202

One of the most famous western philosophers of all time is GWF Hegel. He influenced other thinkers like Karl Marx, Soren Kierkegaard and Jean-Paul Sartre. He lectured at the universities of Jena, Heidelberg and from 1818 until 1831, at Berlin. As a matter of fact, his lectures there drew students from all over campus, to the point that the belltower at the University would sound its bell to announce the start of Hegel’s lectures

People may have flocked to hear him, but that doesn’t mean they understood Hegel. One student who went on to write a biography of him was Karl Rosenkranz, who said “His lectures were not clear and systematic presentations, but profound expositions of the inner movement of concepts, which often raised more questions than they answered”…..in another part, he said “The students often complained that Hegel was difficult to understand.”

Many moons ago, I was a Political Science major, in which I had to take a philosophy course that covered Hegel – I had the toughest time understanding him and Hegel still confuses me  to this day. I read & re-read his words, but I don’t get what he’s saying.

Same with Superintelligent AI like ChatGPT – when we ask it questions, there always seems to be a randomness factor. Sometimes it gives you amazing results, while other times it leaves you scratching your head at its hallucinations…its stupidity.

If you have this problem, it might not be the AI—it might be your prompts! There are hacks to how you craft them – and this has given rise to a whole field – prompt engineering.

Our guest co-founded a 50 person marketing agency called Ladder. He has designed courses on LinkedIn Learning & Udemy that 350,000 people have taken. And he was a very early user of Large Language Models – the brains behind Generative AI.

In 2023 he came on Ep 168 of this show for the book “Marketing Memetics.” In 2024 he came out with an O’Reilly book titled: Prompt Engineering for Generative AI. Let’s go to Liverpool, England to talk with Mike Taylor.

 

Chapter Timestamps

0:00:00 Intro

00:03:28 Welcome Mike

00:11:27 Expressing all that’s needed for a GPT to produce good response

00:20:24 Using AI context window

00:34:48 PSA

00:35:26 Training GPT on proprietary data

00:41:19 Agentic use of GPT

00:47:52 Training GPT for writing

 

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

GWF Hegel

Marketing Memetics, with Mike Taylor – Funnel Reboot

Mike on Twitter

Mike on Linkedin

Mike’s LinkedIn courses

Mike’s Udemy courses

Microsoft GitHub

McDonald’s



Listen to episode

The Content Entrepreneur, with Joe Pulizzi

Joe Pulizzi

Episode 201

While our guest wasn’t the one who invented content marketing, by founding the Content Marketing Institute, Joe Pulizzi became its standard-bearer. For decades now he has shown marketers how to make their marketing better by building a media presence that directly connects them to their audience.

These days, Joe is saying this model applies to a much wider populace. He’s showing how individuals can make a go of having businesses that are 100% content-based. He’s urging these people, formerly known as the audience, to go make their own audience. He calls this type of person a content entrepreneur.

This business model’s definition has two criteria. First is that content is the vehicle used to market the product. We all know this as Content Marketing. It lets buyers take samplings of a business model where they present the skills they’ve acquired and

The next criteria – content must also be the product. Unlike experts who work full-time as a teacher, writer or consultant who sell their expertise based on their own time – be it in increments of hours or years.

Content entrepreneurs get to craft and sell multiple products without committing their time. Instead, they sell newsletters, courses, books, community-access and other products to the point their audience consumes so actively, it generates high-enough earnings to support Their livelihood. It’s possible today to form an entrepreneurial venture based completely on content.

This isn’t exactly a typical Funnel Reboot topic, but we have just surpassed 200 shows and now that we’re starting on a new bicentenary. Let’s use this chance to go in a different direction, try something new.

So listen in as we go to Cleveland Ohio to speak a second time with our guest, and founder of Tilt Publishing, Joe Pulizzi.

Timestamps/Chapters:
0:00:00 Intro
00:04:41 Origins of the Content Entrepreneur idea
00:11:21 Content mktg’s more than a wrapper
00:20:27 Audience vs community
00:23:11 PSA
00:23:52 Thinking of offers for your audience
00:31:13 Having media calendars
00:36:11 Business model may incorporate web3
00:45:34 About CEX & Joe’s book

People/Products mentioned in the show:

The Content Entrepreneur book

Content Entrepreneur Expo

Joe’s LinkedIn profile

Glenn and Joe at the CEX 2024 expo



Listen to episode

Guest Insights

Guest Insights

Episode 200

Podcasts are tiny time capsules, preserving moments of wisdom and insight. Every time I revisit past episodes, I am reminded of how insightful our guests have been. Certain themes consistently emerge, echoed by guests from the very beginning of the podcast to just yesterday. The cost of ignoring these insights is so high that they bear repeating.

Tune in to our latest episode where I share six aspects of marketing that I didn’t know when I first started this podcast. Please listen in on these valuable pieces of wisdom.

Timestamps/Chapters

0:00:00 Intro
00:00:51 Dan White on mutual understanding
00:02:09 Nick Kelly on tackling human adoption
00:02:45 Debbie Qaqish on marketing ops
00:06:35 Johan van de werken on sharing knowledge
00:07:28 Jim Gianoglio on conferences
00:09:04 Tim Wilson on mixing tactics with strategy
00:12:39 Giannini Fumagalli on change
00:13:07 Gil Gildner on change
00:13:54 Amanda Farley on mindset towards change
00:20:05 Brett Serjeantson on SaaS’s shortcomings
00:21:11 Mark Edmondson on building your own system on top of analytics data
00:22:38 Bob Moore on the rise of APIs
00:23:09 In conclusion

Past Guest Episodes

Smart Branding, with Dan White

Delivering Data Analytics with Nicholas Kelly

From backroom to boardroom with Debbie Qaqish

Boosting GA4 with BigQuery, with Johan van de Werken

Marketing Mix Modelling, with Jim Gianoglio

The Analyst’s Role in Marketing, with Tim Wilson

In search marketing, change = opportunity. With Giannina Fumagalli

Becoming a Digital Marketer with Gil Gildner

Built to Change: How to Future-proof your Marketing Team, with Amanda Farley

Data Science Wizardry with Richard Fergie & Brett Serjeantson

What Google Analytics 4 Makes Possible, with Mark Edmondson

Ecosystem-Led Growth, with Robert Moore



Listen to episode

The AI Playbook, with Eric Siegel

The AI Playbook

Episode 199

Today’s topic is AI and ML, and though you may think this doesn’t concern marketing, we need to acknowledge how it’ll shift things.

Up to now, marketing was done on the premise that for a given audience shown a message, some  average percentage, would act on it. With AI, we’re now able to look at individual audience members and predict how each of them would act upon a message, and at the opportune moment we could have the message show up to each one of them. Goodbye analyzing what happened with crude audience averages, Hello to using detailed data to predict what’s likely to happen. 

With AI holding such promise, why don’t more companies hand things over to AI? I had thought it’s held up by a lack of technical people who know how to do this, but our guest says we’ve had enough technical expertise – He himself was previously one of those data people, and his expertise wasn’t enough to do the job.  He says AI initiatives are held back by those running business functions like marketing who haven’t made the business case and collaborated with the data people to implement this. 

My guest is a leading consultant and former Columbia University and UVA Darden professor. He is the founder of the long-running Machine Learning Week conference series, a frequent keynote speaker, and author of the bestselling Predictive Analytics: The Power to Predict Who Will Click, Buy, Lie, or Die. In 2023 he authored “The AI playbook”

Let’s talk to Eric Siegel.

Timestamps/Chapters:

0:00:00 Intro
00:01:37 Welcome Eric Siegel
00:01:56 Barrier we face isn’t technical know-how
00:06:05 Despite a strong start – AI’s been slow to spread
00:11:17 Process a business needs to implement ML
00:27:41 building a custom algorithm
00:29:45 PSA
00:52:32 The human-side of the switchover
00:54:03 Contacting Eric

People, products or concepts mentioned in the show:

Eric speaks at: Generative AI Applications Summit and at Machine Learning Week

Reviews of The AI Playbook and book’s site

Eric works at Gooder.ai

Geek Professor Drops Rap Video, Tries to Dance

The AI Playbook | Eric Siegel, author | bizML

Clayton Christiansen

Malcolm Gladwell

 

 



Listen to episode

AI playbook diagram

Ecosystem-Led Growth, with Robert Moore

Bob Moore ecosystem-led growth

Episode 198

A pretty widely held view in the world of B2B products is that sales has gotten harder, not easier. It’s not that buyers aren’t buying. By definition, buying is something they do. But in the example of software, some sales reps won’t even know they were being evaluated, let alone passed up for a rival’s product. Only the winning vendor knows that that account uses them for that specific function in their technology stack. All other companies are in the dark.  

 

But are they really? Another way to look at this is that every vendor has information that could be valuable to others. You can find many buyers stacks with products having some overlap but that largely complement each other. As proof, note that lots of these products even integrate with each other because of buyer demand. 

 

Should vendors consider collaborating with vendors they compete against? Aren’t we supposed to hate the competition?

 

We don’t have to. A famous example of that was Apple’s announcement in 1997 of the deal it struck with Microsoft. Steve Jobs defended the deal saying  “If we want to move forward…we have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose.”

 

Zooming to today’s reality, It makes a lot of sense for vendors to collaborate as part of an Ecosystem. By pooling their data together with their indirect competitors, they can see internal buying patterns. Those vendors who hitch their data wagons together get around the ‘nobody talks to our sales rep’ problem, because one of their partners already has the info that rep needs. Using this intel helps them come first in the race for their product to be selected to go in the buyer’s stack. 

 

Our guest today got a Science & Engineering degree from Princeton University and after a stint in the investment world, he dove into co-founding startups. The first was business intelligence platform RJMetrics and the other was cloud data pipeline company Stitch, both of which he saw through to successful exits. 

 

His latest role is as Co-Founder of a platform that safely shares data among companies for this kind of partner-based selling.

 

Outside of work, He is a Trustee for one of America’s top centers of science education and development And an improv comedy performer, in a  team that has performed over 100 shows together.

 

This husband, father of two, is very proud to call Philadelphia home. Let’s head there now to meet Bob Moore.

 

Timestamps / Chapters

0:00:00 Intro

00:03:46 Bob’s thesis on how sales is broken

00:11:21 Ecosystems are cause for hope

00:26:13 PSA

00:26:53 Revamping corporate partner practices

00:31:38 Pooling together data

00:55:06 Contacting Bob

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

Ecosystem-Led Growth book

Bob on X

Bob on LinkedIn 

Bob is formerly Co-founder of Stitch Data

Bob is currently CEO at Crossbeam

Metcalfe’s Law

 

 

 



Listen to episode