Episode 83: Quantifying Your Marketing Funnel’s Revenue with Keith Perhac

Disclaimer: The company featured here is not a sponsor of the show, nor have I affiliated with them. They simply bring a perspective that I think you’ll get some use from.

“It’s not working.” That’s the gist of every complaint made about marketing funnels. Marketers painstakingly build a series of offers and pay for traffic to see them, but the conversion rates drop off somewhere between there and the point where sales close.

Can funnels be fixed? Absolutely, but not without knowing a critical piece of data. Getting that data that helps fix the suboptimal parts of the funnel is our focus today. 

To go through this I’m joined by Keith Perhac, a digital marketing expert and software entrepreneur. After growing up in the states, he headed to Japan to become what’s known there as a salaryman. He moved back In 2010 to work with startups and digital marketers looking to grow quickly. He founded SegMetrics, a tool that lets you see revenue from the perspective of each touchpoint in your marketing funnel. Since then, he’s appeared on over 35 podcasts & in 2020 published the book we’re here to discuss, “Building Marketing Funnels that Convert, a 90 minute guide”

When he’s not working on SegMetrics, Keith draws and attempts (futilely) to spend more time outdoors. He lives in Portland, Oregon with his wife and two daughters.

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Episode 82: Renegade Marketing with Drew Neisser

W. Chan Kim, author of Blue Ocean Strategy, said “The hardest battle is simply to make people aware of the need for a strategic shift”.

I somehow feel that he was thinking of marketers with this phrase. We are changing the minds of our buyer so they’ll choose our brand. To do that we are often changing our companies to produce the value our buyers expect. And changing the status quo in some companies means overcoming a lot of lethargy. This takes someone who’s courageous, as today’s author argues, it takes a renegade.

Drew Neisser is the founder of the marketing agency Renegade and Is the host of the podcast Renegade Thinkers Unite. Drew has been featured on network TV, many podcasts and writes a regular column for Ad Age. He talked to me from his Manhattan office about his 2nd book, Renegade Marketing: 12 Steps to Building Unbeatable B2B Brands which came out in 2021.

Key takeaways for unleashing your own inner Renegade

  • Have the traits of cool marketing CATS: Courageous, Artful, Thoughtful, Scientific
  • Reverse your targeting – start with employees, then customers, then prospects
  • If your content isn’t of legitimate value to your customers, then don’t release it
  • Work with your CFO to radically simplify your metrics (8 KPIs or less)
  • Don’t overspend on martech, watch how much headcount it takes to manage the automation technology you take on
  • Leave 10-20% of your budget for experiments
  • Get your value proposition down to 8 words or less
  • Sell through service:think of what your customers would consider valuable; give it without regard to charging them for it

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Episode 81: Paid Attention with Faris Yakob

It’s been amazing, what we’ve achieved by connecting up computers world-wide, webbing them together. As its full name suggests, we gave ourselves an Inter-network that provides for our every information need, on command. But there is one change that the Internet made to us, it gave us more stimulus than our biology was made to handle. The demand for our attention suddenly exceeded the supply; and this economic shift is most noticeable in the world of advertising. The digital advertising marketplace has gotten more vast, more confusing, and it’s far less clear what the rules are anymore. 

Thankfully, there’s been a lot of research at the intersection of advertising and human attention. Effective marketers who are aware of the trends can tune their advertising to make their brands heard and win the attention of their target audience.

To get the latest insights into this, we’re talking to the author of the book, Paid Attention which just came out  in 2022 with a revised edition. 

Faris Yakob grew up in the UK and after graduating from Oxford University, led the digital innovation efforts at global ad agencies like McCann Erickson and MDC Partners. Following that, he and his wife Rosie co-founded Genius Steals, an innovation and strategy consultancy. 

He also serves as a juror for marketing awards like the Clios and the London International Awards. He’s also been a member of a non-profit consortium called  the Attention Council that aims to better measure the influence of marketing on people’s  attention. Clearly someone who likes the written word, in addition to his books he puts out a monthly column in Admap and the Marketing Society.

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Episode 80: Business Gold with Michelle Raymond

When used properly, LinkedIn Company pages carry a ton of marketing value. 

To help us learn how to leverage these assets, I asked Michelle Raymond to join me. 

As a LinkedIn Pages Specialist, she helps businesses of all sizes use Company Pages to amplify personal brands, build up business credibility.

She is a Member of the SMB Advisory Council for LinkedIn Pages, a Top 1% LinkedIn Content Creator. She started using LinkedIn for social selling around six years ago for doing sales, using only the LinkedIn free tools. Closing deals convinced her of the power and she has branched out to using it for Digital Marketing.

In 2021 she and Co-author Lynnaire Johnston came out with a book called  Business Gold: Build Awareness, Authority and Advantage with LinkedIn Company Pages.

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Episode 79: Becoming a Digital Marketer with Gil Gildner

Digital marketer isn’t one of those occupations that kids in school blurt out when they are asked “what do you want to be when you grow up?” 

Thankfully, a book came out in 2019 that lays out very plainly many of the things I wish I’d known when I joined this profession.  Becoming a Digital Marketer has elements that are tactical but it also weighs in on existential questions like ‘what kind of lifestyle can I have being in this field?’ and ‘should I work client-side, agency-side, or be my own boss?” Though I’ve been at this for decades, I’ll admit that I learned a number of things in the book, both about marketing and about  Kombucha, which was the product used throughout the book’s marketing tales.

Once our guest, Gil Gildner, got out of school, he worked in media for NGOs, where he traveled to over 45 countries, wore hazmat suits in Ebola units, and rode Ugandan motorcycles. Realizing that he wanted to survive into his thirties, he started doing marketing for a company that sold around-the-world airfares. It’s in this company where he met his wife Anya, a paid search specialist. Listen to our conversation for more of the interesting story of how Gil and Anya wrote this book and founded an agency which they operate from wherever they are. Today he happens to be in his hometown of Fayetteville Arkansas, near Walmart world Headquarters 

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Episode Reboot.

Check out Discosloth’s free resource The Beginner’s Guide to PPC

Episode 78: How AI Helps Marketers, with Cathy McPhillips

Lots of experts have said that AI is transformational to business. Call me cynical, but when you look at how the average marketing team functions in 2022, it doesn’t seem like much of our work has been transformed. My guest today, a mainstream marketer who hadn’t been influenced by  all the hype, will share her appraisal of AI’s practical uses.

Cathy McPhillips is a longtime Cleveland-based marketer who has worked in corporate, agency-side, as well as owning a small business. She worked for years with the Content Marketing Institute which was led by Joe Pulizzi (who was on Episode 56 of the show). Nearly a year ago, she joined the Marketing AI institute as chief growth officer, but admittedly with very little hands-on experience with AI. 

Brought on to grow the relatively new institute in a hurry, Cathy’s gotten up to speed on how to use these tools. She’ll tell us her story, including how the way we traditionally do things has to change in order to get the benefits of AI. Cathy lists many resources and tools, which have been compiled into a table that’s in the show notes.   I hope by listening to Cathy, you’ll try some of them out, and come away as excited as she is about how AI can be a superpower for today’s marketing.

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Episode Reboot:

Tools to help contentE.G. PersadoDRIFTDescriptMarketMuseWriting social posts, messages (Copy.ai, persado) Personalizing landing pagesAnalyzing what’s said on social about our brand
Tools to help mktg activitiesE.G. Rasa.ioSprinklrOptimizing ads on campaigns to get most leads for least cost-summarizing/visualizing our web visitors and prospectsUnderstand which prospects have intent to buy, are open to contactData cleanup or other repeated tasks, learning from watching you

Also check out our other AI-related episodes:

Episode 77: Stop arguing over leads; start scoring them, with Gary Amaral

Disclaimer: The company featured here is not a sponsor of the show, nor have I affiliated with them. They simply bring a perspective that I think you’ll get some use from.

Two things are required to get a clear view of revenue growth. First, sales and marketing must come together to jointly-define the thresholds at each stage of a lead’s lifecycle. Second, they must apply points to a lead’s every action, either manually or by layering automation on this process. 

My guest believes that lead scoring systems not only bring pipeline visibility, they improve the collaboration between Sales & Marketing. In fact, he claims that by pooling their information on leads and letting AI find the patterns, they can tell when a lead is ready to buy, upsell, or churn. 

Gary Amaral held several positions at places like at BlackBerry & Hootsuite, always at the intersection of marketing and sales. Seeing how poor scoring led to frustration for all involved, he joined forces with two other serial startup entrepreneurs. 

In 2020 they co-founded Breadcrumbs, which is a revenue acceleration platform based on a co-dynamic lead scoring and routing engine. Listen for Gary’s advice on what you need to do to get scoring right. Just as good communication helps keep couples together, the Sales & marketing relationship needs good communication on the status of leads. Lead scoring could very well be the glue in this marriage. 

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You can also check out these episodes involving lead scoring:

Episode Reboot.

Download Breadcrumb.io’s lead scoring template

Episode 76: Paid Media Automation: It’s About Time, with Ameet Khabra 

There’s no shortage of things to do in paid media marketing.   

There are so many options available for automating what the platforms do. Those of us who have taken the plunge into automation all agree it makes sense, both the logical kind and even literal cents, the currency kind. Yet many still resist automation. Not really resist, but given all the things each ad platform does, and all the third-party tools out there, the problem some have is knowing where to begin. 

Our guest today can help us there. Ameet Khabra has spent the last decade figuring out why people do what they do online, what prompts them to take action, and how to use this insight to make marketing work better. She uses that experience in her agency, Hop Skip Media, to design campaign strategies for clients and teach future generations of PPC pros at the university level. Ameet loves her dogs Luke and Leia & the Dallas Cowboys, and Celine Dion songs.

Listen to her take on where this goes right, and in cases like Google Ads’ optimization-scored recommendations, where this can go wrong. 

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Episode Reboot. Be scientific in how you evaluate the use of automation

Episode 75: When Growth can’t be Hacked: New category marketing, with Ned Nadima

Ned Nadima

Today we’re going to talk about the limits to growth marketing, aka “growth hacking.”  In his book “Growth Hacker Marketing,” Ryan Holiday defines this person as: 

A growth hacker is someone who [works] with only what is testable, trackable, and scalable. Growth hackers relentlessly pursue users and growth and when they do it right, those users beget more users, who beget more users.

There’s nothing wrong with this practice per se. But there are stages in an industry’s life cycle where it’s the wrong approach. You can’t, for example, continuously improve a metric when there’s no data to base the metric on in the first place. There are other industries where privacy or perceptions require you to use a different approach. 

This is the world that Ned Nadima lives in. Growing up in Ottawa, he now spends much of his time in Newfoundland, studying and working as a marketer in the Biotech industry

His main passions are growing businesses that involve neuroscience, and artificial intelligence.  He avidly follows his crossfit routine and practices optimal living, experimenting with fasting, sleep hacking, diet and other ways to promote longevity. Like Ryan Holiday, he’s also into stoic philosophy.

Listen to Ned explain what you CAN do when you CAN’T growth hack.

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Episode 74: Marketing Manufactured Goods with Caine Ruckstuhl

When you hear the words “Manufacturing” or “Industrial,” it probably conjures up pictures of smoke-billowing factories somewhere in the American rust belt in the mid-20th century. Those hay days are long gone, that sector’s jobs, which used to account for half of all jobs in the 1950s, had slid to less than 10% by 2009. 

The last dozen years though, have brought something of a renewal to manufacturing. Thanks to the Internet of Things, specifically the Industrial IOT movement, many companies are now making ‘smart’  products that scoop up data about their own health and how they’re being used, a real  goldmine for the products’ makers. Thanks to Moore’s law, they are designing things faster and cheaper, 3D printing takes the minimum number you need to fabricate from huge lots down to single units. The outlook for manufacturing jobs in the 2020’s in places like the US is rosy, with 13 Million workers, producing a total of  $2.00 trillion in goods, or a fifth of the entire GDP (Gross Domestic Product).  It’s not only a good time for manufacturing production people, it’s good for the marketers that work there too.  

My guest today is someone who embodies this upbeat outlook. Caine Ruckstuhl is Head of Marketing, North America for CAREL. He has worked with clients in highly engineered products in Manufacturing businesses, much of it in the HVAC & Humidification space. He knows what it’s like to be in an environment dominated by engineers, who are  notoriously numbers driven, and who aren’t easily impressed by marketing. 

He also has experience marketing consumer products, as his wife perceived young women demanding better hygiene in public washrooms, He and his wife created a brand of  paper toilet seat covers in 2008, doing everything from designing, sourcing, distributing and of course marketing it. When Caine isn’t flying around North America, South America and Europe, he can be found at home with his wife and a lot of very small dogs.

Listen to some excellent insights about this tough, quirky environment of marketing manufactured products. Hear what has worked for him, so you’ll come away appreciating what it’s like to be an industrial marketer.  

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Glenn’s blog post on lessening importance of specs in marketing

Episode Reboot.

For another episode on marketing engineered products, check out Episode 55.