Are we eroding online attention? with Juan Mendoza

Juan Mendoze Eroding online attention

Episode 192

In the world of capitalism, things that are rare are valuable.  Macallan single malt scotch, mint Joe Dimaggio rookie card, vintage Patek Philippe, a Stradivarius, Japanese Wagyu steak, a suit from a Savile Row tailor, an original Worhal painting, or a made-to-order Rolls Royce Phantom. It also extends to digital assets, like the domain, which the original registrant sold to the car company in 2014 for $11 million.

We can add another item that’s limited, arguably it’s a one of a kind. But just like all other goods with high sticker prices, opportunists have attempted mass-producing it, commoditizing it. They’re idea has been to make it common enough and thus cheap enough to be sold everyday in a large marketplace. 

The valuable resource that each of us has, of course, is time. About 200 years ago it became a measured thing, called attention. Ever since, the price it’s assigned has been paced by the places where media can be shown. In the present day, with a prolific amount of media-friendly technology around us, there’s almost no place where they don’t vy for our attention. 

This is bad for consumers. But today’s guest points out how it’s not just bad for them. It’s bad for advertisers, too. He says that bad actors, those who are unscrupulous about what ads they show and how frequently they show them, are spoiling this for the rest of us. The excessive amount of messages aimed at consumers is undermining their ability to absorb them, decreasing the effectiveness of the advertising we do. 

Taken to the extreme, the cheapening of consumer attention could harm the internet as a whole.  A book by Tim Hwang, ‘the subprime attention crisis”  points out that many information sites we all rely on are ad-supported, and the less ad revenue coming in, the less viable these publishers become. 

Our guest is someone who has worked with notable leaders in the marketing technology space and who now runs his own media company.  

He is the CEO of The Martech Weekly (TMW), a media company that’s read by leading marketing and technology executives in more than 65 countries. 

He also hosts the Martech World Forum, an international gathering of world leaders in marketing technology and is a contributor to the “Making Sense of MarTech” podcast.  

We’re heading to Melbourne Australia to speak with Juan Mendoza



(00:00:00) – Intro

00:04:24 – Welcome Juan

00:10:28 – Attention is Finite

00:14:56 – Impact of hitting people’s attention ‘cap’

00:27:26 – Public Service Announcement

00:27:56 – The ‘attention inflation’ problem

00:38:11 – Historical precedents for what we are experiencing

00:41:56 – Where to contact Juan

Listen to episode

People, Products and Concepts mentioned in the show

Juan’s piece on Inflating Attention

TMW, The Martech Weekly

Martech World Forum

Juan on LinkedIn

Subprime Attention Crisis: Advertising and the Time Bomb at the Heart of the Internet by Tim Hwang | Goodreads

Keanu Taylor

Scott Galloway

MrBeast – YouTube

Content Marketing Strategy, with Robert Rose

robert rose

Episode 191

Do you wish there was a blueprint for architecting all your company’s content? You’ve come to the right place because a super-well researched book has just come out, from someone whose name is synonymous with Content marketing. 

Our guest is a marketing leader who helps companies combine technology and digital media to produce great content marketing. Many Fortune 500 brands have sought him out for his strategic guidance. 

He himself says this was an improbable outcome, as a guy who moved from Texas to LA to start a career in Hollywood as a screenwriter. But LA had its own plans for him, specifically in senior marketing roles with SaaS companies, including a content management solution firm where he was CMO.  

In 2010 he joined  Joe Pulizzi, previous show guest who had just founded The Content Marketing Institute as its Chief Strategy Advisor. He played a pivotal role in making it the premier content marketing education organization through its acquisition by UBM in 2016 and right up to the present. He and Joe still put out This Old Marketing, a podcast which is downloaded more than a half-a-million times every year in 150 countries.

He also provides training programs and certification courses through The Content Advisory. 

Beyond all the enterprise work he does, he still rolls up his sleeves to support various startups , serving supporting roles  at DivvyHQ and BrandLens. He is the best-selling author with four best-selling books on marketing and today we’re talking about his 2023 book: Content Marketing Strategy. 

We’re headed now to talk with Robert Rose. 



00:00:00 – Intro

00:02:50 – Welcome Robert

00:04:48 – How having a strategy produces better content

00:28:31 – PSA

00:29:08 – 3 pillars of the Content marketing model

00:34:43 – Org structures at odds with Content Strategy

00:37:22 – Content dept shouldn’t be treated as vending machine

00:39:44 – Content’s container vs content itself

00:45:02 – Infusing content with storylike progression

00:48:23 – Points of view for creating content

00:49:49 – Measuring content’s value

01:00:37 – Getting the book/contacting Robert

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Delivering Data Analytics, with Nicholas Kelly

Delivering Data Analytics

Episode 190

We’ve all heard of 1970’s Apollo 13 mission that was supposed to send a 3-man crew to the moon, but once NASA became aware of an on-board explosion, it became all about rescuing the crew. 

Ron Howard’s 1995 movie gives a glimpse of how mission control staff in Houston reacted to information about the explosion. 

When an alarm on the command module flashed, signaling a power drop, Flight Director Gene Kranz (portrayed by Ed Harris) turned to the mission controller in charge of emergencies and said “is this an instrumentation problem, or are we looking at real power loss here?” That officer, named Sy Liebergot and played by the director’s brother Clive Howard said “It’s, it’s reading a quadruple failure – that can’t happen! It’s, it’s got to be instrumentation.”

But by following their procedures, NASA confirmed it wasn’t an instrumentation problem, the ship had actually suffered a devastating explosion, and at that point they swung into rescue mode. 

NASA aren’t the only ones who, on seeing data put in front of them, are so quick to dismiss it.

Dashboards – and the work it takes to implement them – isn’t trivial. Yet many of them fail…meaning that once they’re built they never get looked at. 

There are those who blame technical problems for this, but just like in Apollo 13, the main failures are due to people problems. The technology can be used to visualize  exactly the operational data that people literally  asked for…and present them with self-serve solutions, but they ignore the data, waving it away as some sort of instrumentation problem

Our guest is going to tell us the right way to pull off dashboard projects.  

He’ll show how to engage the stakeholders to express what metrics they really need, ones that show how the organization is tracking towards reaching its vision.

Nicholas Kelly, currently the principal consultant and trainer at G&K Consulting, holds a Bachelor of Computer Science from University College Cork. Formerly a Deloitte Analytics Senior Manager, he specializes in designing and developing dashboards for major global companies, including banks and Formula 1 teams. Nick is a frequent speaker at international conferences, having trained thousands of professionals in data visualization and analytics adoption. As a management consultant, educator, and author, his focus is on teamwork, inventive methods, and bridging technical gaps to increase data literacy. He is also the creator of business board games and the author of the book “Delivering Data Analytics.”

Let’s go to Seattle where I caught up with Nick Kelly. 


Chapter Timestamps

00:00:00 – Intro

00:03:57 – Welcome Nick

00:08:18 – Why dashboard projects fail

00:34:46 – PSA

00:35:35 – Building the dashboard

00:57:12 – Where to get book; contact Nick


Listen to episode

People, products and concepts mentioned in show:

The book and site for Delivering Data Analytics

Nick on LinkedIn

Nick is the inventor of the Dashboard Wireframe Kit and the DataStory Cards

Waterfall vs Agile project methodologies

BFCM – Black-Friday Cyber-Monday

Data storytelling cards
Nick has made storyboarding cards for data dashboards.

Revealing visitor behaviour through tags, with Ricardo Cristofolini

Revealing visitor behaviour with tags

Episode 189

My sister-in-law Janice works at the forefront of Medical Sonography. You may know it by the name Ultrasound, where non-invasive sound waves are sent into the body, which bounce off tissue and get displayed on a monitor. It has the ability to evaluate anatomy in an increasingly wide range of structures such as abdominal organs, the heart, vasculature and muscles in patients of all ages as well as the most commonly known purpose of obstetrical ultrasound.

In the past 35 years, ultrasound has changed from a tool that was used solely by Radiology and has now expanded into being used by almost every medical disciple: cardiology, emergency medicine, anesthesia, nursing, physical therapy and more. Training these non-traditional users had a huge boom, and now ultrasound is being taught in the first year of medical school as it is known that no matter what type of medicine one chooses, ultrasound will play a part. Janice and others have shared their love and knowledge of ultrasound to help and aid the expansion of ultrasound into new realms in all areas of healthcare.

In a similar way, to be better marketers, developers, or website owners, there are aspects of web behaviour that we need surfaced: specific user conversions, page views, scrolls and many other interactions. These aren’t visible to Analytics tools out-of-the-box. Our equipment must be configured to highlight them, and that’s done with tags that fire and alert our analytics software of specific interactions, the same way that medical monitors show the echoes of specific sonar frequencies.

We’ve evolved from coding tags right on our sites to operating them with tag management systems, the most common one being Google Tag Manager. Without these tagging tools, our visibility into site performance would be limited the same way that doctors before ultrasound couldn’t see what was going on inside their patients.

Another similarity these tools share is that they both come with ethical and safety considerations, and laws covering user privacy and data protection. Gathering insights, whether by ultrasound or tag technology, must respect the digital autonomy and privacy of users.

We have a guest to take us through all facets of tag management and I hope that after hearing him, you won’t think of tagging as just some machine that should be relegated to technicians, but a tool you can use on the front-lines, as something you yourself should get hands-on with. So let’s talk about tag management with Ricardo Cristofolini.

With a background in Tourism and Hospitality Management and International Trade, Ricardo Cristofolini’s Analytics professional journey began when he arrived in Canada in 2015 to study at Algonquin College of Applied Arts and Technology, where he earned an Ontario College Diploma in Computer Programming, Networked Environment, and Programming Languages from 2015 to 2017. There, he had the opportunity to put together previous professional knowledge with brand new one exploring multiple subjects, from Web and App Development to cloud computing, Database structure, and much more.

Transitioning to the workforce, Ricardo served as a Web Developer at FilmFX from December 2017 to December 2019, gaining two years of experience. In March 2018, Ricardo expanded his skills at Pondstone Digital Marketing, specializing in WordPress, Content Management, and other relevant areas until February 2019. At this point, he had already fallen in love with Analytics and Data Tracking. His expertise continued to evolve as he took on the role of Senior Data Analytics Implementation at Bounteous Canada from July 2021 to October 2022 He currently holds the position of Napkyn Senior Implementation Specialist Data Solutions, a role he has been dedicated to since 2022.

In his spare time, when not reading about Analytics and developing his knowledge (and earning a badge from Linkedin as Top Web Analytics Voice), Ricardo supports others’ new adventures in this field on multiple social media platforms answering questions and providing guidance.

Originating from Brazil, Ricardo Cristofolini’s professional trajectory reflects a dynamic and progressively challenging path within the realms of web development, digital marketing, and data analytics implementation.


Chapter Timestamps

00:00:00 – Intro

00:04:55 – Ricardo on GTM and Google Tag

00:27:40 – PSA

00:28:30 – All about Server-side Tagging

00:49:06 – Where to contact Ricardo


Listen to episode

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

What’s New with the Google Tag article

Everyday use of Google Analytics, with Dana DiTomaso

Dana DiTomaso

Episode 188

Dana DiTomaso embarked on her digital marketing journey over 20 years ago, initially working in tech support for a CRM before founding a web design company in 2002. In 2000, clients sought her expertise in increasing website traffic, propelling her into the world of Search Engine Optimization (SEO). By 2012, Dana became an active participant in the SEO community, sharing insights on technical and local SEO topics.

Dana, having typed her first line of code in 1982, consistently demonstrated an entrepreneurial spirit and started delivering talks and presentations since 1998. Recognizing the potential of digital-first marketing, she founded three businesses that educate entrepreneurs and organizations. As the founder and lead instructor of KP Playbook, Dana teaches the “Analytics for Agencies” course and manages a thriving learner community, emphasizing proven principles over quick tips. Notably, none of her clients have faced Google penalties to date.

Dana lives in an old growth forest near Victoria BC.


Chapter Timestamps

00:00:00 – Intro

00:03:01 – Welcome Dana

00:08:18 – The unvarnished view of data given by GA4

00:16:33 – Using custom reports and exploration tab

00:22:41 – Giving other users access to Reports

00:26:39 – PSA

00:27:25 – Reporting through Looker Studio

00:35:08 – Why knowing some UX helps

00:38:54 – Pulling other data sources together with GA data

00:44:01 – Looker studio tactics

00:53:18 – Where to contact Dana

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

Reach out to Dana at

Dana on LinkedIn

Dana’s personal site

Dana built Kickpoint Playbook, which includes the course “Analytics for Agencies” – use the code FUNNELREBOOT for 20% off






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High Impact Content Marketing, with Purna Virji

High Impact Content Marketing

Episode 187

In numerous companies, the approach to content strategy appears to be nonexistent, marked by haphazard content creation and dissemination. A notable absence of a cohesive plan to align content with overarching marketing objectives is evident, leading to a disjointed and less effective approach. In light of these challenges, it becomes imperative for companies to recognize the critical significance of implementing a robust content strategy. The upcoming discussion will delve into a methodology that not only addresses these shortcomings but also promises to elevate content creation to a level where flawlessness becomes a tangible outcome. As we navigate through the intricacies of this approach, you will discover how a well-crafted content strategy can serve as the linchpin for achieving marketing goals and fostering a more impactful and cohesive online presence.

Purna Virji is a globally recognized content strategist. She grew up in India, when her family came to the US they settled in  Philadelphia. She did her masters at Cardiff University, but returned to Philadelphia where she was a journalist and then a producer at the local TV affiliate for PBS. That experience is where She picked up expertise in creating content. She ported this communications flair into designing Pay Per Click ad campaigns for ecommerce companies and then when Microsoft’s own ads platform needed a trainer, she transitioned to working there, training both internal Microsoft teams and external groups on Microsoft ads. She went on to speak at conferences like MozCon and SMX Advanced and was ranked as the #1 Most Influential Expert in the world by PPC Hero.  

She is currently the Principal Consultant for Content Solutions at LinkedIn. In 2023 she came out with the book “High Impact Content Marketing” which we’ll talk about today.  


0:00:00 – Intro

00:02:42 – Welcome Purna

00:10:32 – the AGES model

00:20:38 – PSA

00:21:46 – Practical tips for high Impact content

00:35:26 – Identifying what your audience’s needs are

00:46:41 – Where to get book; contact Purna

Listen to episode

Author’s COCOA model for topic ideation, reprinted with permission

Successful Change, with Susan Odle

susan odle

Episode 186

Increasingly, many Marketing teams have been forced to transform their own teams, or the Business as a whole has had to start transforming itself. 

But no matter how technically sophisticated they are, no matter how many consultants they have or how many Project management meetings they hold, most companies struggle through these transformations. At best, when transformations succeed, they leave heart-ache and sore feelings 

Most of them revert to the status quo they tried so hard to shake. Those leading the initiative end up demoralized, marginalized or downsized.

People who say they can make transformations successful are treated with skepticism. But when that someone has skills that are so multifaceted and has pulled off this feat in multiple industries, you ought to lean in & hear them out.

Susan Odle is someone whose life’s journey and heritage spans three continents. Born to Guyanese parents moved first to London England, then to Toronto, Canada where she went to high school; it happened to be the same school where I went. Anyway, she moved to Ottawa to study music at University. The musician in her has been strong from then until now, evidenced by a solo project she released in 2017.

Our paths crossed again years later when I moved to Ottawa. In the interim Susan had been holding pivotal roles in high tech firms, leading channel & direct sales, professional services, and ops which helped several to successful exits. Susan was honored In 2020 as one of the top 50 women in SaaS by the Software Report. She’s also owned several businesses as well. Currently, Susan specializes in operationalizing change through her consultancy, 8020CS. She’s taken her understanding of navigating successful change and literally wrote the book on it. “Successful Change,” was released in 2023.

Chapters & Timestamps

00:00:00 – Intro

00:02:47 – Welcome Susan

00:06:46 – The chaos that comes with transformation

00:11:50 – The 8020CS Blueprint

00:21:46 – Break change down into four dimensions

00:29:38 – PSA

00:30:32 – Moving through ‘gates’ toward successful change

00:48:59 – Overcoming resistance

00:53:45 – Susan’s coordinate and other resources

Listen to episode

Hosting Events that Generate Leads, with Michael Tucker

Hosting events that generate leads

Episode 185

One thing that professional services and solo subject matter experts struggle with is building an audience and influencing their purchases.

Creating a content marketing engine that achieves this can take agonizingly long – years even. But virtual events that are properly marketed seem able to shorten that timespan. 

My guest, Michael Tucker, has refined a program that develops virtual events for clients, and over the past 3 years it has accelerated post-event prospect discussions and sales success.

Graduating from Campbellsville University in Kentucky, he now calls Florida home 


0:00:00 Intro

0:01:14 Welcome Michael

0:03:44 Virtual events are good for leadgen

0:29:09 PSA

0:30:17 Running virtual event that embeds call-to-action

0:32:30 Seeding the CTA into event

0:54:50 Michael’s coordinates

Listen to episode

People/Products/Concepts mentioned in the show

Michael’s sites:

Michael on Instagram

Michael on









Prophecies and Pleas of an Advertising Man, with Myles Younger

Myles Younger

Episode 184

You could say that the marketing field is going through exciting times right now. But you shouldn’t say that everything’s rosy. Here are examples of issues we’re grappling with:

The use of SaaS by Marketing may have freed us from being chained to the IT department, but after 25 years of binge buying all these point solutions, we’re saddled with loads of Technical debt, and the order to repatriate customer data from all these servers. 

CMOs are tasked so much with explaining technology out there, much of their time is used up by the C-Suite’s questions, leaving little time for them to manage marketing.

There’s the question of whether the agency-client relationship will survive with AI. Some say brands won’t need an agency as they will generate their own creative. Agencies like Publicis, who’ve poured huge sums into their media-platform CoreAI that monitors billions of consumer signals and can inform what ads should be made, when & where.

 Because our field doesn’t have standardized accreditation, our terminology isn’t  uniform, and we make dialects for our company or industry. How’s that working for us? About as well as it did for those building the Tower of Babel.

My guest is Myles Younger, Head of Innovation and Insights at U of Digital. Since graduating from Northeasters 20 years ago, he’s been up and down the marketing industry block. He was a client-side marketer in the tech and financial services sectors, He founded and led an adtech company, Canned Banners, that was acquired. He worked as a VP at data consultancy  MightyHive which became Media.Monks. 

He is in a new role now at U of Digital, spearheading this education thought leadership to expand the company’s educational offerings across different formats, learners, and markets 

To me, he’s something of a modern-day David Ogilvy, who wrote his thoughts on his industry back in the day, in a book called “Confessions of an Ad Man”. Myles is just as outspoken on digital media and advertising topics, and the opinions he voices in trade publications and podcasts can come across as prophecies about this industry and sometimes pleas for how it could be better. 

I caught up with him in Portland, OR, where he lives with his wife and three kids.


0:00:00 Intro

0:03:25 Welcome Myles

0:04:55 Continuum of approaches to privacy

0:07:58 Our reliance on ad tech; its future

0:20:56 We can only go as fast as our people can

0:24:53 Tech debt we’ve brought on ourselves

0:31:50 PSA

0:32:37 Changes impacting platforms & ad agencies

0:42:44 Platforms exploiting advertisers in the name of Al

0:48:27 The good & bad of using their Cloud offerings

0:52:32 Best reaction is educating ourselves

1:00:00 How to reach out to Myles


Listen to episode

People/Products/Concepts mentioned in the show

Myles Younger on LinkedIn

Myles works at Uof.Digital (check out their newsletters)

Salesforce ‘no software’ campaign

Benito Mussolini

Tower of Babel

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle

Diverse Data Tracking Methods, with Adam Greco

Adam Greco

Episode 183

As a Disclaimer, note that there’s no sponsor or affiliate relationship with the vendor interviewed here. They’re simply on the show to give their perspective on our topic.

As trite as it sounds, the way that we look at the world affects our understanding of it. Let me tell you about a time I noticed this. When I was a kid, I would go to school, walk into my classroom, and see my teacher there. She was such a constant there, I imagined that she never left the classroom, she was a fixture of the room, part of the furniture. It’s like the teacher didn’t persist as a person who had a life outside of the classroom. So when I was out at the grocery store with my parents and I saw my teacher, not dressed in their teacher clothes, not ensconced in their teacher setting, my brain just melted. 

While this might be laughable, those of us using marketing analytics tools could be guilty of falling into the same trap. Credit for making this concept clear in not 1 but 2 great books must go to Avinash Kaushik. Think about it. According to Classic web analytics, visitors who hit our website had started  an imaginary timer that we called a web session. We imagined in this race against the clock, they were viewing a sequence of pages which ferried them to forms we used as gates. We told ourselves that the gate-crossers had completed a successful session, converting from visitors into leads or customers.

Stepping back, there are a few things wrong with this picture. Users don’t only exist inside of a session, just like the teacher didn’t only exist in the classroom—they roam about as they please. 

Today’s users aren’t confined to marketing content. The experience they have straddles our marketing sites, to sites  and apps where their identity persists through being logged-in, where the interactions even span multiple devices – as we see on Slack and Discord for messages we’ve already read.

The user’s state changes – sometimes they complete a purchase, or become a paid subscriber, but at other times they may opt for a free plan or abandon their cart. 

We need analytics for all of these actions. We need to step back and view the entire experience that people have with us over time. This is something that classic web analytics just can’t measure.

This is why the new generation of tools allows us to analyze complex trends and behavior of our users. They are collectively known as event-based analytics tools, and they excel in portraying the way that users experience a product. The foremost product-oriented analytics tool out there is called Amplitude, and today, we are speaking with its product evangelist.

Since 2021, Adam Greco has been Amplitude’s  Product Evangelist, guiding clients in understanding their tool through workshops, blogs, and videos. 

He got into this field in 2005 when he joined analytics platform Omniture where he was a customer advocate for four years until Adobe acquired them and rechristened them Adobe Analytics. He then worked at consultancies for 15 years, showing people how to get the most out of Adobe’s tool,  authoring over 200 blog posts along the way. 

Lately Adam’s speaking and advising on analytics has had him splitting his time between Chicago and Amsterdam (where he was when this was recorded). When he’s in the states and not working, he enjoys restoring and going for drives in his 62 convertible corvette. 


0:00 – Intro

5:00 – Meet Adam; why event-based method works better than session-based method

24:00 – PSA

24:45 – how to get value out of recent analytics tools, including warehouse-native apps

56:20 – Adam’s coordinates and free resources


Listen to episode

People/Products/Concepts Mentioned in Show

Adam works at Amplitude

Video of Adam speaking on Warehouse-native analytics 

Connect with Adam on MeasureSlack

Connect with Adam on LinkedIn

Gary Angel

Google BigQuery

Snowflake Analytics


Quantum Metric



Content Square

Example of Amplitude’s event-based reporting